For a very long time, I was a die hard NBA fan.
I went with my family to The Richfield Coliseum to cheer on Mark Price and Larry Nance for my 7th birthday. I made my mom buy me a Brad Daugherty shirt that I wore to school twice the next week.
I forced my roommates to watch the slam dunk and three point contests in college. We made a drinking game out of it. Like Larry Legend, I left the warmups on too. I don’t remember who won either of the night’s events… but my hangover assured me that I didn’t.
I took a first date to “The Q” to watch Lebron and the boys a few years back. I spent the entire night ignoring her, and explaining how Lebron was the one who was going to break the Cleveland Curse. She didn’t answer my calls over the next week. Crash and burn. I guess that should have been a sign of things to come…
Hell, I even bought a “Wrong Way” Ricky Davis Jersey. I loved everything about the National Basketball Association, but all of that has since changed. It has shifted. Soured.
The NBA is reportedly set to cancel two more weeks of its upcoming season, and I for one could not care less. The blame game is being played across the nation, but I am here to tell you that this is unequivocally the players fault.
The main talking point that the players are unwilling to move on is that they REFUSE to accept a 50/50 split of basketball operations. In short, 12 players per team do not feel that it is acceptable to split the earnings in half with the rest of an organization that employs hundreds or perhaps thousands of people.
Furthermore, these 12 NBA players per team have absolutely zero vested interest in the company. They have not risked a single dime of their own money. They’ve nothing to lose. The owners buy these teams for millions and millions of dollars and run every aspect of them year round. They get no offseason. What gives these dozen players the gall to demand significantly more than half?
Save your argument of “they are the talent.” That’s a horse s**t argument. Without the owners to organize and manage a profitable league, most NBA players are little more than 6’8” bellhops. All the basketball talent in the world can’t run successful business. Just ask these guys.
Every Tuesday, I drive downtown to play basketball. I do it because it is a game, and I enjoy it. The average NBA player is paid nearly 5 million dollars a year to do the same exact thing. Over 400 thousand dollars a month to play a child’s game.
Here’s another reason that the players are wrong… they need this WAY more than the owners. As Patrick Ewing famously said “We make a lot of money but we spend a lot of money”. The average player may not have enough stocked away to continue his current lifestyle, but I assure you most owners do. Christmas is right around the corner. Think those Basketball Wives will be ok with no presents this year? They seem reasonable.
The players selfishness is hurting not only themselves and their loved ones, but all of the workers in the arenas too. Not to mention all of the bar and restaurant owners that need the NBA traffic to survive. The NBA “union” is the single most laughable concept on the planet.
Notice to the NBA players: If you were a true “union”, when the ticket takers went on strike you wouldn’t cross the picket line. Scabs.
As if public perception wasn’t bad enough, Chris Paul went on record as saying the players WEREN’T greedy and Tyson Chandler openly called the NBA owners “dictators” on ESPN radio. Someone get these morons a muzzle. Hank Williams Jr. thinks you sound like an idiot.
If you ask me, even a 50/50 split is preposterous. That’s how guys like Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas get paid $20 million a year. But if that is the number than needs agreed upon to get the ball bouncing again, the players need to pull their heads out of their asses and get the deal done.
Or don’t. I don’t really care.
Follow me on Twitter @JockPostDT to discuss the lockout, Basketball Wives, or anything else sports related.
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yo bro u wrong the players need to get PAID man this aint how u say the players is the reasons that people be coming to the stadium
The linchpin to your argument rests on the flawed assumption that money is more important than talent. You couldnt be more wrong my friend. There are simply no shortage of billionaires lining up to buy an NBA team. Faceless bags of cash ready to support players.
By contrast, show me the next Kobe Bryant. The next Italian speaking American who entertained us for years in a way similar to Michael Jordan in the 90s. Show me the next Larry Bird. We havent seen any player remotely like him since, but America is loving the work ethic of Kevin Love. Every year colleges and high schools churn out new players, yet the next Magic, Bird, and Jordan havent shown up yet. Quite simply, these guys are hard to come by. They are the hot commodity, not the owners and their money.
There is absolutely no league without the players. Period. Do people show up to watch the owners? To eat overpaid food in cramped seats? No, they show up to watch Wade, KG, D.Rose, Kevin Durant.
With the players, there can still be a league, still be a payment system. Without them, there is nothing. Have a league full of Smush Parkers and tell me how well that turns out.
The players deserve 60%. Because faceless bags of cash can easily be replaced. Try replacing a brand like Lebron James.
CD, I appreciate the well thought out response. I enjoy reading responses like yours much more than the mouth breather that posted before you.
While I agree talent is important, the league simply cannot exist without the owners. Who do you think holds the leasing rights to Quicken Loans Arena, American Airlines Arena, and The Staples Center for the next decade? The owners. Think they’ll just give them up and walk away from the contract?
Doubt it.
While there may be a “line of billionaires” around the block waiting to buy these teams (Note, Forbes says there are only 164 billionaires on the planet), where will they play? Will new arenas be built? Will they play in high school gyms? Rucker Park?
In the time it would take for 32 new NBA owners to figure out where to play, 3 new classes of players will have graduated from college. That’s where the next Magic will come from.
Will those young guys join players of the past flying around the country to play in charity games for free, or will they be more likely to side with the owners who will pay them millions. Obviously this scenario is unlikely, but as you may feel its tough to have a league without the players, it is significantly less likely to have a league without the owners.
The problem with your argument that the players are to blame for the league’s so-called devolution is that the bad players you mention that “ruined” the game don’t sit on competition committees to make the rules, they don’t regulate the officials (see Donaghy, Tim and Salvatore, Bennett), and they don’t expand the league too fast.
Let’s talk about league expansion, shall we? Teams like the Raptors and Bobcats exist in markets where the league cannot survive even if Kevin Durant played there. Because if Durant ever left those markets, adios muchachos. And by the way, if David Stern cared about the real fans? He wouldn’t have consipired with Clay Bennett to steal the Sonics and Kevin Durant from Seattle to put them in OKC. But hey, NBA fans that want to blame the players for traffic headed to work this morning? Knock yourselves out. David Stern doesn’t care about the fans.
The reason your argument is flawed is because the league’s success during the Bird-Jordan-Magic era caused these billionaires to want to jump in, own a team and make money. The purpose of the Maloofs joining the league again wasn’t to make the LEAGUE a better place. The Madison Avenue arm of the league isn’t set up to make “better basketball.” The league office wants to sell tickets, merchandise and export the game to a billion TV sets in China, my friend. The league has expanded beyond the league’s front office’s ability to evaluate talent properly. But you know what I hate most about the NBA fans that blame the players for their problems? The owners and GMs that won’t own up to the stupid personnel moves their own teams make. Everyone knows that Eddy Curry’s a bum. So why do NBA GM’s (who are supposed to be smarter than the players) continue to pay him money? And I do find it rather cute that some writers have blamed the NBA players for the economic downturn and “how dare they” ask for more money when regular Americans are struggling to find work and make ends meet. One has nothing to do with the other. I’ll worry about what NBA players do to keep food off my table when LeBron James himself comes in, brandishes a weapon at my dinner table and takes the lasagna pan and runs out the door. But if the rest of America’s afraid that Paul Pierce took dinner off their table? That’s their own ridiculous delusion.
As for the fans? There are two types of people that watch the NBA. There are grassroots fans that know the game and love the game. Those fans are priced out of the league. The fans that are in the seats and luxury boxes have some grassroots types, but mostly? These “fans” are there to complain about every single thing that’s “wrong” with the NBA. And they sound like the most annoying parts of a Bill Simmons complaint column. The entity that pays the most for space in an NBA stadium are your high-priced seats on the sideline and up in the luxury boxes. And unless their name is Jack Nicholson? They don’t know jack about basketball other than what a blog-post a blog about what’s wrong with the NBA tells them.
DT, you are missing the point. Let me try again.
Without the players, there is no league at all. 0%. There is no talent. Just empty stadiums.
The players have already shown in very short time that they can pull together exhibition games outside or in small arenas, go on tours all over the world and the games are always packed. With them, the chances of a league are much higher than 0%, right? You could argue 5%, 20%, 50%, 70%, but the point is Players % of league is higher than the 0% the owners are dealing with right now. For goodness sake, Italy wants to pay Kobe 2 million for one game and Kobe is the one who is balking. The money is THERE.
The players can go start the Universal Basketbal Association and the first year have enough investors to make modest livings by their standards. A few million for a star would be very, very easily to find.
And there are not 164 billionaires, I dont know where u got that figure from. there are 1,210 billionaires aaccording to Forbes, as found here: http://www.forbes.com/wealth/billionaires
More than enough money to go around. Not enough talent to go around. Its simple supply and demand. The owners have dug their feet in by controlling staidums etc, in an attempt to not be expendable, but the fact is, they still are. They can be bought out. Players can play anywhere. New stadiums can be built. Etc etc.
Lastly, you cant say the next Magic is in the next crop of rookies. We havente seen a player like that since 1979. Please, value what these players do more. They are extremely unique. The talent deserves to not get hosed and they are exercising that right. If the common American man would do more of the same, big business wouldnt pimp all of them all the time.
Being exploited isnt right. no matter if u are making 5 dollars an hour or 15,000 dollars an hour. Common Americans should be completely on the side of the players here. 100% on their side.
CD,
The “Team Wade vs Team Lebron” charity game in Miami had 4000 people there. I’m not sure what the tickets cost, but I doubt enough to fund these players and their obnoxious spending habits or to fund a continuous tour around the globe. People showed up because it was a gang of superstars and the final score was 141-140. It was essentially the all-star game. The Globetrotters. Is that sustainable?
You’re right in the fact that off the bat, the owners wouldn’t be able to fill a league. Luckily for the owners, they don’t need to. Most owners make their money in other ways, and basketball is not their main source of income. If this season or next season or even the one after that all get cancelled, the owners will be fine. I don’t know how well an average NBA player would take to being paid like a Globetrotter on their city-to-city celebrity game tour. Tough on their family and personal life too.
I understand your point, but we are going to have to agree to disagree… because I am confident that if both sides walk away from the bargaining table, the owners will be in a much better position over the long haul.
But let’s just hope that doesn’t happen.
I’m sorry Dave, but I’m not sure I understand the point you are trying to make. David Stern is the reason that the players and owners can’t agree to a 50/50 split?
Wow. There actually AREN’T “lines of billionaires” waiting to buy NBA teams. There are no billionaires waiting to buy teams. The richest dude in the league (and one of the richest in the world) is supposedly on his way out, b/c he sees no way this is worth his time and morney anymore.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_owners_paul_allen_lockout_102111
And if it came down to a competition b/w a league of scabs run by the owners and league run by LeBron, Kobe, and Durant, I know who my money is on to last longer. And it ain’t the guys with 1 year of college between them.
Pay dem boys man ain’t no owner dropping dimes who u think gon win in the end? Players makes the league wut it is and cud go off n do they own thang easy like some old owner gun b as sick as wade n melo right
There actually AREN’T billionaires lining up to buy teams. The richest guy in the league (and one of the richest in the world) is supposedly on his way out because he doesn’t view this as worth his time or money anymore.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_owners_paul_allen_lockout_102111
And if it came to a league run by the owners with scab players and a league run by LeBron, Kobe, Garnett, and Durant, I know who my money would be on to survive. And it wouldn’t be the guys with 1 semester of college under their belts.
The thing is, you are bringing in their other businesses into the discussion of the NBA. But that actually helps the players argument.
The owners have stadiums deals for concerts for example. The sports teams build these stadiums into places people want to go, year in and year out, yet they dont share in the revenue that the stadium makes off of the other smaller acts that come in. Their money is limited completely to the NBA and what they are able to hustle from being NBA players. Additionally, it doesn’t matter if they will independently be well off from other business ventures. We are talking about a specific venture called the NBA. All other deals/ventures are irrelevant and only work in terms of bragging rights about income.
Also, you are being flippant about a 4000 person exhibition game a few months after the lockout. The players are in a holding pattern. If the players had to actually start a league, deals would be in place for something MUCH bigger than that. If you want to use it to think about what the players would be capable of, remember it was hastily put together as a regional small game with no television coverage. With all the deals in place for a serious league, it would be huge. You cant operate on the assumption that things in the future would just be how they are now. The players are still holding out hope. Once there is no hope of the owners budging, the players can make moves to move in another direction. What you see them doing right now is essentially treading water.
Trust me man, you are dead wrong here. I respectfully cant agree to disagree, because I honestly dont think you have completely fleshed out this argument. Also, your argument relies on key information that isnt right. For example, you thought there were around 100 billionaires. I showed you there are over 1000 billionaires. That one stat pokes a 90% increase of holes in your theory. Basically, if you keep making the wrong assumptions to begin with your conclusion will always be wrong too bro.
I think you are a smart , level headed guy, which is why Im taking the time to write this. Sit back, analyze what I said, look for what you think is wrong, and pick it apart honestly and analytically. If you cant do that….then think about changing your opinion. Being stubborn just to not lose an argument never helped anybody.
I for one completely agree with every point and argument made … well done, there are always gonna be young talented bball players coming from college wanting to join the league … maybe they will have more sense and agree that 5 mil average to play a game that you are lucky to play with your god given talents and nothing short of ur superior athletisicm (yea I get it they work hard too but let’s be real — without talent you’ve got not chance) … I am ok with them having individual players agree separately to the generous terms the owners have presented and if there are players that don’t agree … well then cya …
Kobe is balking because he knows he isn’t going to actually have a $2 million check given to him, and he doesn’t want to risk shredding his old knees. Do you really think it’s because he expects to be paid more than $164 million in the NBA?! Hahah, get real homeslice.
I can’t even believe you used the term exploited in regards to an NBA player. You realize that it’s the best job on the planet right? Yes, they are unique ( you can’t be extremely unique- you either are or aren’t), and they have been well-compensated for it. So they have to take a pay cut to sustain their business. Do you know who else has had to do that? EVERY INDUSTRY EVER. To quote a great man – “get real homeslice”
Akeem With an H, did you actually read that article you posted?
1. it argues that Paul Allen, above all else, wanted to win. He thought simply pouring money into the franchise would buy him championships. He is left with zero. He made bad business decisions and is bitter and wants his money back. Sorry Paul, you played the game and lost. Man up and deal with it. Instead he is playing hardball with careers and jobs because HE messed up. Why cant you guys see this is the same kind of situation as a Wall St bail out? These guys do what they want, how they want it, and then when something happens they dont like, they attempt to change the rules in their favor again. When will we have enough of these greedy corporations, owners, billionaires holding their breath until they turn blue? Too big to fail? Heck no. Let them fail.
2. you are flat out wrong about there not being people LINED UP to buy teams. Most of them are international, at that. People love the idea of being owners of a franchise and will do anything to get in. If these owners didnt like it, they would just sell baby sell. But they love it too. They just want more.
3. I hate that you mentioned education here. Its a thing that I wish we could avoid, but I see it in so many of the arguments and the denials that come: the race argument that people argue without mentioning. old white guys vs young black guys bucking the system. A culture shift. The accusation of lack of intelligence, the snarky comments about rap music PHDs and tattooed CEOs. Sure, people are quick not to say “black” and “white”, and will get angry and attempt to deny their insinuations all they want….but cmon, be a man. Say what you mean.
Yall are defending the wrong side here. Regardless of color, age, culture, side with the WORKERS. Because that is who you are.
Wow, you don’t like an education topic.
You are arguing my point – Paul Allen wants out because he realized throwing that throwing obscene amounts of money at these guys doesn’t work. They take his money and buy tons of pot with it.
Is it his choice to pay Damon Stoudamire $80 million? Of course. Just like it’s his choice as the OWNER to not agree to do it anymore. I personally think that these guys being unionized on either side is ridiculous, because we are LONG since past the days when any one on either side of the table can claim they are getting screwed.
And I didn’t mention race, you did. Fine, in my hypothetical, let the players league be run by Chase Budinger, Kevin Love, and Gordon Heyward. The point is that most of these guys live in Narnia where all their wishes come true, and the word “no” is a bad dream. The players union actually sent Paul Pierce, Kobe, and Garnett into a sit down negotiation with the owners a week ago. In your WILDEST dreams would you ever imagine a teachers union, or a steelworkers union, or any other union you care to chose, sending in one of the 9-to-5-ers to negotiate?!?! What are they paying Billy Hunter like $2 mil/yr for?! The players union is entitled, they are arrogant, they are ignorant, and they need to open their eyes.
I don’t want the NBA to go away, and I’m gonna pissed if there is no Christmas Day basketball. But the union needs to get their heads out of their asses.
“They take his money and buy tons of pot with it”
Listen to yourself. You aren’t belittling players racially? Please, dont play coy with me. You don’t have to mention it explicitly to be talking about it.
Consider this discussion with you over.
Thank god. This was hurting my head. How do you know I’m not a billionaire, for starters, callin me a worker?Or that I’m not a black dude. Or an Arab for that matter. Its not racist MAN- they don’t test for pot in the NBA. If you think that’s racist, that’s on you.
Damon Stoudenire was actually busted with a pound of weed at his house when his alarm went off. Follow te NBA a little more before you go proselytizing about workers and bosses, Vlad.
When you go to work tomorrow, apologize to your boss for not-so-secretly hating him all these years.
Hahahah hey CD, Russia called, it wants it’s politics back.
Hey Jonesy, Harry and Lloyd called, they want their even dumber sidekick mascot back.
Oh and Truth Machine.
I hate, hate hate the asinine argument that because they are millionaires playing “the best game ever” that they should just deal with it.
If you really feel that way, then you should never, ever, ever argue about anything in life again. Seriously. Never ask for a raise from your job, never complain about how you are being treated, never stick up for yourself. You know why? Because somewhere, someone has it way worse than you, therefore, you should suck it up and deal with it. RIGHT?
Thats a stupid attitude to have because guess what: Everything is RELATIVE. I can empathize with your situation the same as I can with someone making millions. If someone is being wronged, it doesnt matter what they are being paid.
ON TOP OF THAT, of all people to align yourself with, why would it be the billionaires? What is wrong with people, always siding with the business owners, the ones that oppress you on a daily basis with horrible paychecks?
Quit being bitter and jealous and side with people that are just like you. Workers.
Workers for workers.
also:
unique – Kobe
extremely unique – Michael Jordan
So stop trying to be the diction police.
i love how cd brought race into it when nobody else said a thing about it. THAT is the problem. Some people look at this as “white billionaires vs black millionaires” and they let it cloud their vision. (that would be YOU cd). Other people that aren’t racially motivated see player being greedy and selfish and completely under prepared.
The player couldn’t start their own league. That is ludacris and it’s not because of the color of their skin. It’s because they don’t know how. I think CD needs to reevaluate his position and try taking race out of it because that has literally NOTHING to do with it.
And thats coming from a mixed race mouth.
Most people (around 97%) are incapable of seeing themselves as an “owner.” They side with the players because the “big bad owners” are obviously wrong. This is laughable and sad.
There is an age old adage, “the people with the money make the rules.” In this case, the owners still sign the players’ checks… the players are but pawns in a much larger game that in most cases involves successful billionaires who have spent years building up their businesses to the point they can buy and run an NBA franchise.
I for one hope the owners teach the stupid, greedy players a lesson and keep them locked out and unemployed. I feel bad for the 1000s of arena workers who are feeling the pain of the players’ greed.
For those of you siding with the players, you probably either:
1) love unions and collective bargaining (which is destroying the country)
2) think it would be OK to make demands to your boss
or 3) are unemployed.
Instead of jumping on the “owners are evil” bandwagon, try to use your brains and think this through logically!
-DN
I’m confused… are you arguing that the players should start their own league or that a group of 30 rogue billionaires come in and start their own version of the NBA? I can’t decide which idea is more outlandish.
I don’t care how many billionaires there are, they aren’t lining up around the block to buy the T-Wolves, Grizzlies, or any other of the 17 NBA franchises that LOST money last year. (http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-01-27/sports/29978700_1_valuable-team-valuations-report-claims)
A large chunk of basketball related income comes from major TV contracts. Are you implying that entities like NBC, CBS, and TNT tarnish their relationships with NBA owners for a this travelling circus of all-star games? Doubtful. Especially considering the ties of the owners with board members of these corporations and the fact that a league like this would fold almost immediately.
Another chunk of BRI comes from stadium advertisements. If there is no “home” stadium, this would virtually disappear too. How much is one night of advertisement worth compared to an entire season? Especially if nobody is watching?
The venues would be considerably smaller, so ticket sales, concession sales, and parking would be diminished.
So basically, the overall worth of your make-believe league would be slashed. Imagine you are an owner in your new magical league. Try to convince people to come play for you and not to consent to a 50/50 split:
“So, we will give you a 57% split of BRI… but here’s the thing… the overall pie is a fraction of the size that it used to be because our TV contracts are awful, our advertisements stink, and there aren’t many people here. So the average salary here will no longer be $5mil. It will be $1mil. Hope thats ok. Oh… and we don’t technically have a stadium, so we will be travelling across the globe to play. I know you’re used to being home 10 months out of the year, but in order for us to survive, we need to play 6 nights a week in college gyms and run down town halls… so make sure you FaceTime your kids and your wife so they remember what you look like. OH, and we have to fly coach because we can’t afford private planes or charters anymore. Oh, and all your endorsement deals are probably going to shrivel because your TV exposure is going to be diminished so drastically. OH, and we only have 12 teams because the other franchises weren’t sustainable, so every night will be a remake of the all-star game. We all know how exciting those can be! But don’t worry, you’ll love Moskow in December. We’ll have an Iron Curtain Christmas!”
The league would fold before you could blink. Or the players would realize how good they actually have it, and agree to the 50/50 split.
You seem like a smart guy… I challenge you to think bigger than you currently are thinking. Think beyond the talent, and think into the business of the NBA. As much as we hate to admit it, it is a business. If you truly believe that a players only league would work, or that the player would be better off without the current system, then we can’t agree here because I am right, and you are wrong.
That’s not being stubborn. That’s being correct.
DT – I don’t know how you can say that this the players fault . The business environment has changed so the CBA has to change. How is that the players fault?
Second, this a business negotiation – race, education, and pot are minor factors. The question is who has more leverage and it seems like the owners do.
DT – You can just say that today’s players make you sick because they make tons of money and use it to behave boorishly, act entitled, and play selfish, stupid, undisciplined, playground basketball (well, most players). Personally, I agree with such a sentiment and it is really making it very hard for me to watch the NBA.
The players can play exhibition games and it is true that a league without LeDecision and Kobe is less attractive. But there just isn’t that much talent. The genius of stern and the NBA is to spread the little talent there is and grow it into 32 teams. Perhaps though , they spread the talent to thinly. The league can contract a few teams and nothing will be lost. There are probably about 8 teams of D-leaguers in the NBA right now…
DT – I don’t know how you can say that this the players fault . The business environment has changed so the CBA has to change. How is that the players fault?
Second, this a business negotiation – race, education, and pot are minor factors. The question is who has more leverage and it seems like the owners do.
DT – You can just say that today’s players make you sick because they make tons of money and use it to behave boorishly, act entitled, and play selfish, stupid, undisciplined, playground basketball (well, most players). Personally, I agree with such a sentiment and it is really making it very hard for me to watch the NBA.
The players can play exhibition games and it is true that a league without LeDecision and Kobe is less attractive. But there just isn’t that much talent. The genius of Stern and the NBA was to spread the little talent there is and grow it into 32 teams. Perhaps though , they spread the talent too thinly. The league can contract a few teams and nothing will be lost. There are probably about 8 teams of D-leaguers in the NBA right now…
JoshB – u say the CBA needs to change… And the players are unwilling to change… But it’s not their fault?
R u drunk before lunch? U make no sense.
I’m not drunk. DT says the NBA is falling apart because of the players. I say it’s falling apart because the business environment has changed. Now the two sides have to negotiate a way out of this. There is no blame or fault in negotiations – only leverage.
Travis, I never brought race into it. Lets not play stupid here. We all can read in between the lines, and if you want to pretend like certain language doesn’t allude to race, be my guest. But I wont subscribe to your juvenile nonsense.
So funny tho. Some people love to call people racist for calling out THEIR racism. The new racism is claiming people are racist because they get mad at you for expressing racism.
Buy a brain, sir.
donniccolo – You are obviously a slave, and enjoy being one. Most people don’t. Good day.
CD, the fact that you classify NBA players as “workers” just goes to show how big of a clown you are, and as much as you want to claim you did not bring race into this argument … you did.